Alex Ooley (00:00)
Welcome back everybody to the Forge of Freedom podcast. We're here with our second guest of the day, Ben Leibing. I believe I'm saying that correctly. got it, Ben. Exactly. So Ben is here with Hillsdale College. Ben doesn't even know this actually. We met just yesterday briefly. But my father has been a subscriber to ⁓ imprimis or imprimis. Yeah, That's all right, everybody. For quite some time. And now I'm a subscriber myself. And I've always enjoyed reading those. ⁓

become more acquainted with Hillsdale College in recent years. actually stopped by the booth booth a couple of years ago and I learned about other programs that you have the shooting sports program the K through 12 classical education. So we would get get into a little bit of that here today. But if you want just starting out introduce yourself what your connection is to Hillsdale what you do for Hillsdale now. ⁓ And then we'll get into a little more detail about Hillsdale College. Right. So I attended Hillsdale 2004.

which each passing year seems like longer ago. I'm the oldest of five and all my younger siblings ended up going to Hillsdale as well. So I have four younger siblings, so my parents have been proud Hillsdale parents for about 20 years at this point. So we're a Hillsdale family. Born and raised in Cincinnati, so about four hours south of Hillsdale. Hillsdale is in south central Michigan. A little small town right on the Michigan hand right there.

Hillsdale's claim to fame above all probably is A, a great classical liberal arts education, but B, the fact that we take no government.

money whatsoever. Which has been in the news a little bit recently right because there's so much discussion about these institutions, these Ivy League institutions who are receiving federal funding. And Hillsdale of course doesn't have to worry about that because they've never accepted federal dollars. That's correct and really that came to a head in 1984 is when we had our official final break with the federal government. And it's funny with Harvard being in the news my mother-in-law looked at me the other day and she goes, Hillsdale doesn't get any money. What does Harvard do with all this?

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extra money they get, I that's a great question isn't it? So yeah, also no federal money, we probably fund everything and over 90 % of our students are on some kind of merit or need-based scholarship so we fund that actual tremendous amount of scholarship for our students so that's a really neat thing. well one thing I've always appreciated about Hillsdale is a lot of people like it because they sort of stand for the classical sort of ⁓ conservative somewhat education

I don't want to say I don't want to pigeonhole the education too much, but people I think who go to Hillsdale tend to be conservative or libertarian minded right and But nevertheless, that's not necessarily Required right to appreciate the classical education that you receive there No, no not at all and you know Hillsdale was founded 1844 by free will Baptist but for a long time It was not technically a Christian school. So does not have a word taking a non sectarian Christian school We don't have an affiliation. I don't have a statement of

So when I was there it always leans that a lot of the student body tends to be religious and Christian of some stripe and conservative of some stripe. But there are folks there who are not conservative in nature at all politically or culturally and there's a bit of diversity of opinion especially when I was there. I had good friends who were on the complete other side of the political landscape. So it's not as dyed in the wool as you might think it and it prides itself on that. We want to be a college of open eyes.

ideas and asking the why questions, questioning why do we believe this? Thinking critically, thinking through history says this, how do we know what we know? And that's an essential component of a classical education is that critical thought ⁓ and really questioning your beliefs or what you think you know. Absolutely. ⁓ One thing that I've come to learn about Hillsdale is not only do they have the

Primus publication. have lots of other educational resources. There's podcasts and all sorts of other what other resources are available just to the general public. You don't have to be affiliated with Hillsdale. absolutely great question. Hillsdale has done since I graduated they've done a tremendous job of putting out many more resources available to everyone. The number one I would say right now is the online courses. Again second to Imprimus. You can do a simple Google search Hillsdale online courses and we have a tremendous library and adding more

every month almost, of well produced, think of it as a ⁓ Hillsdale College Lecture meets a YouTube series. And then they're beautiful, we've got them on the Constitution on every aspect of history, on the influence of the ⁓ progressive left in America, the Genesis story in the Bible for example, the whole gamut. So online courses are a huge resource. ⁓ And then another great, great tool aside from imprimis and the

the online courses are the podcasts. So we have Hillsdale College Podcast Network. ⁓ I think we have about eight, and again that, I could be fudging that number a little bit, it might be more, it might be less, but about eight different podcasts in our network from the Hillsdale Free Radio Hour to ⁓ our president Larry Arn does a show with Mark Levin right now called Life, Liberty, and Learning with Mark Levin, Larry Arn. And that's a great series. I think they've got about eight parts in that right now. So the Hillsdale podcasts are building ⁓ gradual steam as

becoming a tremendous resource. I can recommend the courses, the online courses as well as the podcast. I haven't listened to all the podcasts but I've listened to a fair number of and they're excellent. I haven't listened to near all of them either. There's a lot of material there. Yeah well produced and great content.

So we're here at the NRA annual meeting and as I said I spoke to a few folks from Hillsdale a number of years ago. I believe it was at the Indianapolis show. And I want to talk a little bit about why Hillsdale comes to the NRA annual meeting, right? Because you're not...

really here for the Second Amendment directly, right? You're here to promote the college, but one of the things that I want to talk about is this connection between the classical education and individual liberty and how that ties into the right to keep and bear arms. you mind to comment on that? absolutely. again, it is funny when you think about it, because I looked around the other day and I think we're the only academic institution here at the NRA show. know, this is all gun makers and tactical folks, military, and here we are, Hillsdale College.

Obviously the Second Amendment is hugely important, but Hillsdale almost stands behind that in its educational work in saying, hey, we're here to obviously inform the well-educated, properly functioning citizen. And that's somebody who knows the Constitution to begin with, at least in broad terms. The First Amendment, the Second Amendment, the Second guarantees the First Amendment. We've that a lot. So the NRA and Hillsdale have had a long... ⁓

Brotherhood I guess you would say in some ways we have even folks that work for us that overlap with the NRA We've shared staff members with the NRA in some ways and and so The you know the Second Amendment is is Crucial to protecting the First Amendment which is freedom of speech which really is freedom of thought You know and we stress that a lot at Hillsburg. You're not free to say ⁓ things. You're not really free to think them. Yeah, and so now

how that works out in real life is, example, Hillslough has this shooting sports range now that we've developed. And people kind of, even I tilted my head at first and I said, well, we're doing what? Because that was not there when I was in school. So all of sudden we've got this 113 acre shooting range. It's about 10 minutes away from the college campus. It's an U.S. Olympic rifle team trains there. We have a national, we recruit students for our national shotgun team. We travel all over the country competing and shot. And so, you know,

You could get into the philosophy of what shooting actually is and what that means, but there's a way you can.

I etherealize these ideas and think about them in the high lofty ways, but then there's actually taking a gun in your hands and learning how to use it. And that's a tactile important thing to do to guarantee your own individual rights, but then also to practice in art, you know, what shooting absolutely is. It's amazing. I've never been to the facility there at Hillsdale College, the Shooting Sports Center, but ⁓ I did see a map of it. looked like an incredible facility, as you said, over 100 acres and just an amazing setup that looks like. ⁓

see that someday. one of things you mentioned that a lot of people say the Second Amendment was put in place or adopted to protect the first. I see it. I'm sympathetic to that view, but I see it as there being more of a synergistic relationship there. Not just between the first and the Second Amendment, but between understanding the ideas and the principles of liberty and protecting the Second Amendment or the right to keep and bear arms more broadly, irrespective of the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Because the way

I it, and I want to get your thoughts on this, is that basically the ideas precede liberty and people have to understand the principles, the values, the virtues that go along with liberty and a free and prosperous society. And I think that to the extent that people are equipped with those ideas and can communicate those ideas to others, the less likely we are to need the Second Amendment.

and the right to keep and bear arms, right? The right to keep and bear arms is there as sort of a fallback, as more of an emergency relief valve, so to speak. So you're talking more about, it sounds like kind of the idea of what personal sovereignty really means. Is it right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, to some degree. So I see the sort of the mental capacity, the mental ammunition, you know, that foundation of the ideas of liberty as the foundation that protects the Second Amendment.

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then also vice versa the second right there right right the ideas the thought the personal sovereignty that we that we have a hundred percent yeah I agree with you completely yeah and I think Hillsdale

does a great deal to help cultivate individuals who have that expansive thought, that foundation to be able to go out in the world and communicate those ideas. absolutely. go ahead. We're big on the why, so I feel like all of our students graduate with being able to answer the why question. That's always what I'm proud of about Hillsdale, what we pride ourselves on is if you ask us a question we can answer it, right?

just with a talking point, but actually a thought through answer. Yeah, it's not just, you so often people they come out of high school and they've gone through 12 years of being taught what to think and how to regurgitate information, but not how to think about that information, right? And how to really engage with it. And so I think that Hillsdale really emphasizes the why and the engagement with the ideas and the information. Absolutely. And that's what the classical tradition is all about, you know, building the

political mind in accordance with the whole person, the whole spirit, mind, body, and spirit, truth, and goodness as we say. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. Well, you mentioned that there's some relationship between the NRA and Hillsdale. I'll give a shout out to one of your professors, David Reidy. He's a professor of history. He spoke at the legal seminar here on Friday. That's right. He also is an NRA board member, a relatively new one, but he

at the membership meeting yesterday and I thought did an incredible job ⁓ speaking at the membership meeting in support of a resolution but the vote was closed and this is where I want to give him kudos. The vote was You don't have to tell me about this because I don't know, I wasn't in there, I don't know the details. there was a resolution, a motion actually to refer a resolution to a committee.

and I don't want to get into too many of the details. He supported the motion to refer the resolution to committee, but the vote was very close. And ordinarily, they just count the vote by a look around the room and a show of hands. But it was so close that there was no way you could get an accurate count. And so they did what's called a paper ballot, where people tear off a tag and say yes or no to the motion. ⁓ But you have to have 100 members.

to get the paper ballot. So there has to be show of hands of at least 100 members to even get to the paper ballot. And so David ⁓ supported the paper ballot even though the initial show of hands was supportive of his position. And to me, that showed that he really cared about transparency, he really cared about a credible vote count, he really cared about making sure that

the members got what they wanted. And so I really appreciated that about him. think it showed a great deal of character and, you know, concern for the memberships. That's great to hear. Really, you know, their desire. So that's the Hillsdale way. That's right. So that's neat. Yeah. I don't want to get into too much of the shooting sports.

offerings at Hillsdale, but if you would talk a little bit about what Hillsdale has to offer, we talked a little bit about their complex there, what sorts of programs or offerings do they have? I I think you even have scholarships for some of these teams, right? We do, and as a matter of fact, I know some of these off the top of my head, but I did bring my handy pamphlet with me, so I'll walk you through it as I walk through right here, but we have a shotgun team. These two we recruit for, the shotgun team.

We competitively recruit across the nation for that. And again, this is one of those things that as a non-shooter myself, you know, in my college years, I had no idea this existed and it was this competitive. But you know, the shotgun sport is incredible and we have a truly world-class team. We have then an action shooting team, an Olympic air rifle and a pistol club team. So that's a club team, not an official college team. And then we also offer college courses.

safety courses. neat. Right. ⁓ I believe they're partnering with, and I could be wrong about this, I would have to double check, but I believe they partnered to do your concealed carry classes and licensure at the range. Okay. And then we're also developing an indoor archery range as well. Very cool. So right now it's almost, I believe it's going be done in June or July. We've got an indoor archery range and then also an indoor 50 meter air rifle range and pistol range as well as all the outdoor bunker, drive and ski. Okay.

So for those of you who are here at the meeting and are hearing us talk, be sure to stop by the Hillsdale booth. You've got a brochure there. looks like this is our handy Shooting Sports brochure. That's specific to the Shooting Sports. Yeah. But is there a place people can go if they're not here in person, they can go online to find out more about the Shooting Sports programs? And again, a simple Google search of Hillsdale Shooting Sports will take you right to the website. I'm doing a DuckDuckGo search. Hopefully that works. Yep. And it's the halter.

Shooting Sports Education Center is the technical name. I'm gonna pull it up here. It'll be right there. think I found it. Yeah it should be. Yep you got it exactly. Alright so there you see it the John Anthony Halter Shooting Sports Education Center. You can see the picture there looks like a nice like clubhouse I suppose. It's a beautiful yeah there's a lodge there we serve food, do events there and we also have some lodges where you can stay.

Overnight come up for an extended stay. We have four lodges there in our building more as a matter of fact. it's gonna be a bit of a retreat center as well. Okay. It's a beautiful place. It's got a link here to the Shooting Sports website and then it's also got information here about the range and the range managers. If you have questions about is this open to the public at all? It is open to the public. Yeah. So public can stop by any time ⁓ pretty normal business hours.

Sometimes again the Olympic team will be there practicing or shooting and parts of the range will shut down for that. ⁓ But in general, yeah, it's open to the public facility. Okay, excellent. You can see here there's some pictures, overview like drone pictures it looks like of the facility. looks like a really incredible facility. It's a big place. 113 acres like I said, it's a tremendous piece of land. Fantastic. Well Ben, I really appreciate you stopping by the booth today to talk about Pillsdale.

their educational offerings, their unique position in a world that's full of federal funding and grants. I really appreciate that Hillsdale is one of the unique standouts in not accepting any federal money or the puppet strings that come with it. So that gives Hillsdale a lot of autonomy.

to do what they think is right. Absolutely. It's funny to kind of be the last man standing on the wall and to look around and say, where'd everybody else go? But it's a privilege to do it. again, this is ⁓ a shout out to all the Hillsdale supporters and people who know the college, who support the college. It's an incredible family. It really is. And it's grown, of course, nation, really worldwide at this point, of folks who know, love, and support the college.

It sounds cheesy to say, it makes the wheels go around and makes it all possible. And those people ensure the freedom of the college, the freedom of thought that continues there. I've never been there, but I feel some connection to it because of the value that it's provided to me. Absolutely. Come up to campus, We love to host anybody, anybody and everybody at campus. I'll take you up on it. I'm from Southern Indiana, so I'm not too far away. far away. Yeah, just a little.

south of Cincinnati as a matter of fact. So, about as far south as you can go. Four or five hour drive up to campus. that'd be good. All right. Well Ben, thanks a bunch for having me. Thanks Ben. Really enjoyed the conversation. Good luck with the rest of the show. Oh yeah, you too.