Alex Ooley (00:01) another episode of the Forge of Freedom podcast. I'm your host, Alex Uli, and today I'm joined by a special guest, Dr. John Aden. ⁓ Dr. John Aden is a doctor in San Antonio, Texas, and an orthopedic doctor. Pediatric orthopedics. Pediatric orthopedics. And he's also a member of or associated with the Doctors for Responsible Gown Ownership. And we're going to talk a little bit about that organization, about Dr. Aden's efforts to help preserve the right to keep and bear arms. Dr. John Edeen (00:01) another episode of the Forge of Freedom podcast. I'm your host, Alex Uli, and today I'm joined by a special guest, Dr. John Aden. ⁓ Dr. John Aden is a doctor in San Antonio, Texas, and an orthopedic doctor. Pediatric orthopedics. Pediatric orthopedics. And he's also a member of or associated with the Doctors for Responsible Gown Ownership. And we're going to talk a little bit about that organization, about Dr. Aden's efforts to help preserve the right to keep and bear arms. Alex Ooley (00:30) specifically from a medical standpoint. So, Doctor, thanks for being with us today. Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah, of course. I'm glad we finally got to sit down for a podcast. We've known each other for a few years. I don't remember when we met first. It may have been at the Legally Armed in Detroit event with Rick Dector. be, yeah, because I've done that several times and also at GRPC. GRPC, yeah. Because I go to most of those as well. But it's been at least three four years that we've been acquainted. Dr. John Edeen (00:30) specifically from a medical standpoint. So, Doctor, thanks for being with us today. Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah, of course. I'm glad we finally got to sit down for a podcast. We've known each other for a few years. I don't remember when we met first. It may have been at the Legally Armed in Detroit event with Rick Dector. be, yeah, because I've done that several times and also at GRPC. GRPC, yeah. Because I go to most of those as well. But it's been at least three four years that we've been acquainted. Alex Ooley (00:58) Enjoyed a few cigars together as well. absolutely. Yes, Dr. White that smoked cigars. It's a good thing. Remember that. That's right. So we're actually, as you can see if you're watching the podcast by video, we're at the NRA annual meeting in Houston, Texas. And we're on the media row they call the Voices of the Second Amendment. So it's a relatively new initiative. I think last year was the first time they did this and we're recording. Dr. John Edeen (00:58) Enjoyed a few cigars together as well. absolutely. Yes, Dr. White that smoked cigars. It's a good thing. Remember that. That's right. So we're actually, as you can see if you're watching the podcast by video, we're at the NRA annual meeting in Houston, Texas. And we're on the media row they call the Voices of the Second Amendment. So it's a relatively new initiative. I think last year was the first time they did this and we're recording. Alex Ooley (01:25) from from there this year in in houston i think it's been great and glad glad you could join us here doctor so i'm happy to be here yeah so with the if you would just before we get into the doctors for responsible gun ownership which you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself who you are how you got into firearms and and and out how uh... you sort of got into weaving your medical practice an expertise into the the firearms world so uh... think the death of orthopedic surgery Dr. John Edeen (01:25) from from there this year in in houston i think it's been great and glad glad you could join us here doctor so i'm happy to be here yeah so with uh... if you would just before we get into the doctors for responsible gun ownership which you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself who you are how you got into firearms and and and out how uh... you sort of got into weaving your medical practice an expertise into the the firearms world so uh... think the death of orthopedic surgery Alex Ooley (01:55) I went to college and medical school in New York at Columbia University. After I finished that, I went in the Navy and I did orthopedic and internship and residency. I also spent two years as the medical officer on the USS Pellaloo, which is an amphibious assault ship. And now we're seeing the USS America, is the LHA is the same class as the Pellaloo was. Pellaloo was LHA 5, America's LHA 6. It's a completely different ship. Dr. John Edeen (01:55) I went to college and medical school in New York at Columbia University. After I finished that, I went in the Navy and I did orthopedic and internship and residency. I also spent two years as the medical officer on the USS Pellaloo, which is an amphibious assault ship. And now we're seeing the USS America, is the LHA is the same class as the Pellaloo was. Pellaloo was LHA 5, America's LHA 6. It's a completely different ship. Alex Ooley (02:24) they totally changed it. We had a well deck, America doesn't, so it's kind of a different thing. After that I spent two years as a orthopedic surgeon at the Naval Hospital in Jacksonville, Florida. I did a deployment to Somalia when we were leaving Somalia back in 1994. Then I did a pediatric orthopedic fellowship at the Shriners Hospital in Springfield, Massachusetts. Dr. John Edeen (02:24) they totally changed it. We had a well deck, America doesn't, so it's kind of a different thing. After that I spent two years as a orthopedic surgeon at the Naval Hospital in Jacksonville, Florida. I did a deployment to Somalia when we were leaving Somalia back in 1994. Then I did a pediatric orthopedic fellowship at the Shriners Hospital in Springfield, Massachusetts. Alex Ooley (02:52) After that I actually did a little traveling. We did clinics in Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic and the island of Cyprus. So in the Mediterranean. We would take those kids and we would bring them back to Springfield, Massachusetts and we would do surgery to correct their issues. It was very eye-opening. I can see kids with a teenage cubit completely untreated club foot. You never see that in the United States. Those kids all get treated. Dr. John Edeen (02:52) After that I actually did a little traveling. We did clinics in Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic and the island of Cyprus. So in the Mediterranean. We would take those kids and we would bring them back to Springfield, Massachusetts and we would do surgery to correct their issues. It was very eye-opening. I can see kids with a teenage cubit completely untreated club foot. You never see that in the United States. Those kids all get treated. Alex Ooley (03:21) kids. This kid, know, so it's a totally different deal. So it really expands your medical knowledge. So then as far as the gun thing goes, the first time I shot a gun was actually the guy that I replaced on the Peladu. He was a gun guy and he took me out and I remember shooting a 6 inch, 6.86 revolver. Dr. John Edeen (03:21) kids. This kid, know, so it's a totally different deal. So it really expands your medical knowledge. So then as far as the gun thing goes, the first time I shot a gun was actually the guy that I replaced on the Peladu. He was a gun guy and he took me out and I remember shooting a 6 inch, 6.86 revolver. Alex Ooley (03:42) You know? Yeah. I mean, I recognize it. In fact, I have one. I do as well. Yeah. My father gave it to me. Yeah. And, you know, so that kind of got me started. And then when I was a resident, I would play racquetball with my neighbor who was a pathology resident. And he dislocated his kneecap. Dr. John Edeen (03:42) You know? Yeah. I mean, I recognize it. In fact, I have one. I do as well. Yeah. My father gave it to me. Yeah. And, you know, so that kind of got me started. And then when I was a resident, I would play racquetball with my neighbor who was a pathology resident. And he dislocated his kneecap. Alex Ooley (04:01) when we were playing one time. So he was kind of laid up. goes, you know, I got these guns. Let's go up in the range up in the Oakland Hills and we'll shoot some guns. I okay, that sounds like fun. And then right after that, the Rodney King thing started. And so I ended up buying myself a bread in 92. And that was kind of the beginning of it. When I moved to Jacksonville, I joined a gun club and one thing after another. Dr. John Edeen (04:01) when we were playing one time. So he was kind of laid up. goes, you know, I got these guns. Let's go up in the range up in the Oakland Hills and we'll shoot some guns. I okay, that sounds like fun. And then right after that, the Rodney King thing started. And so I ended up buying myself a bread in 92. And that was kind of the beginning of it. When I moved to Jacksonville, I joined a gun club and one thing after another. Alex Ooley (04:28) reason I got into the Second Amendment stuff was because I would listen to armed American radio and so Mark used to do these events at the Gander Mountain stores and there's one not very far from here is where I met Mark Oh interesting Yeah, so my partner and I we drove out it during the... it was in 19... or was it 2013 I guess it was when we were having a lot of ammo shortages and Gander Mountain had a crap load of ammo Dr. John Edeen (04:28) reason I got into the Second Amendment stuff was because I would listen to armed American radio and so Mark used to do these events at the Gander Mountain stores and there's one not very far from here is where I met Mark Oh interesting Yeah, so my partner and I we drove out it during the... it was in 19... or was it 2013 I guess it was when we were having a lot of ammo shortages and Gander Mountain had a crap load of ammo Alex Ooley (04:55) So my partner and I said, let's score some ammo, let's go to this thing. So we did. And I met Mark, and Mark and I, we talked for, I don't know how long, but we really hit it off and became really good friends. And he invited me to come to the NRA meeting in Houston that year. So I met him there and he introduced me to Masada Yu. And I'm like, that's good. And now I've probably done just about everything that Mass has done. ⁓ Dr. John Edeen (04:55) So my partner and I said, let's score some ammo, let's go to this thing. So we did. And I met Mark, and Mark and I, we talked for, I don't know how long, but we really hit it off and became really good friends. And he invited me to come to the NRA meeting in Houston that year. So I met him there and he introduced me to Masada Yu. And I'm like, that's good. And now I've probably done just about everything that Mass has done. ⁓ Alex Ooley (05:26) and I've done the instructor thing. The only thing I haven't done was the testifying for instructor things. NASA's become a good friend and mentor for me. A couple weeks ago I was just up at the Range Master Tech at the conference, and I'm a Range Master instructor as well. You and I did the thing with Regector. I don't know if you know about this, but we taught like 1200 women over a weekend. Dr. John Edeen (05:26) and I've done the instructor thing. The only thing I haven't done was the testifying for instructor things. NASA's become a good friend and mentor for me. A couple weeks ago I was just up at the Range Master Tech at the conference, and I'm a Range Master instructor as well. You and I did the thing with Regector. I don't know if you know about this, but we taught like 1200 women over a weekend. Alex Ooley (05:55) One year we did like 1800. Yeah, and just phenomenal. In fact, I remember one of the girls Was shooting and every time she shot she would win so I said, are you okay? Well, I just got out of the hospital I got shot in the chest and I might rid still her Wow, you'd had a thoracotomy from a gunshot into the chest. Oh my you know, yeah, I had to go tell Rick I said Rick You need to meet this girl. Yeah Dr. John Edeen (05:55) One year we did like 1800. Yeah, and just phenomenal. In fact, I remember one of the girls Was shooting and every time she shot she would win so I said, are you okay? Well, I just got out of the hospital I got shot in the chest and I might rid still her Wow, you'd had a thoracotomy from a gunshot into the chest. Oh my you know, yeah, I had to go tell Rick I said Rick You need to meet this girl. Yeah Alex Ooley (06:24) Rick was like, yeah, this is why I do this thing. And it really hit home for me personally as an instructor. thought it was pretty phenomenal stuff. But anyway, after meeting Mark at the NRA and meeting the side of you, he said, well, why don't you come to Gun Rights Policy Conference? It's in Houston in a few months. I said, well, I got to look at my schedule, but I was trying to make it. So I did. Dr. John Edeen (06:24) Rick was like, yeah, this is why I do this thing. And it really hit home for me personally as an instructor. thought it was pretty phenomenal stuff. But anyway, after meeting Mark at the NRA and meeting the side of you, he said, well, why don't you come to Gun Rights Policy Conference? It's in Houston in a few months. I said, well, I got to look at my schedule, but I was trying to make it. So I did. Alex Ooley (06:50) And I went to the Gunnery's Policy Conference and there was a guy named Tim Wheeler who talked about this organization, Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership. And at that time I was trying to get the Canadian Medical Society to come out with a statement that... Dr. John Edeen (06:50) And I went to the Gunnery's Policy Conference and there was a guy named Tim Wheeler who talked about this organization, Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership. And at that time I was trying to get the Canadian Medical Society to come out with a statement that... Alex Ooley (07:09) in hospitals. Of course, got voted down 22 to 2. And so I told Tim about this. goes, yeah, that doesn't surprise me at And so that's how I got involved with Doctors for Responsible Gun Armorship. And now I'm the membership director. I've been with DRGO for 13 years. How long have you been the membership director? Pretty much not very far after I joined. Dr. John Edeen (07:09) in hospitals. Of course, got voted down 22 to 2. And so I told Tim about this. goes, yeah, that doesn't surprise me at And so that's how I got involved with Doctors for Responsible Gun Armorship. And now I'm the membership director. I've been with DRGO for 13 years. How long have you been the membership director? Pretty much not very far after I joined. Alex Ooley (07:38) I think Tim realized that I was going to be an assailant. when I came up to him and I introduced myself, goes, wow, you know how rare you are? An orthopedic surgeon who wants to put himself out there for gun rights. I've testified in front of the Texas House and for number of things, including the Dr. John Edeen (07:38) I think Tim realized that I was going to be an assailant. when I came up to him and I introduced myself, goes, wow, you know how rare you are? An orthopedic surgeon who wants to put himself out there for gun rights. I've testified in front of the Texas House and for number of things, including the Alex Ooley (08:06) constitutional carrying that we got passed. I've interacted with lot of people, lot of the GOA people in Texas, they're very active. Dr. John Edeen (08:06) constitutional carrying that we got passed. I've interacted with lot of people, lot of the GOA people in Texas, they're very active. Alex Ooley (08:19) So I think we're all really one big tent. No, actually wasn't. It was actually started as part of the Dr. John Edeen (08:19) So I think we're all really one big tent. No, actually wasn't. It was actually started as part of the Alex Ooley (08:39) it's like a think tank in California. I'll think of it in a little bit. But Tim was part that. The reason why DRGO started was because Tim realized that there was so much bias in the literature. Dr. John Edeen (08:39) it's like a think tank in California. I'll think of it in a little bit. But Tim was part that. The reason why DRGO started was because Tim realized that there was so much bias in the literature. Alex Ooley (08:56) Medical literature. Dr. John Edeen (08:56) Medical literature. Alex Ooley (08:59) like this can't go, I gotta do something about it. And he was one of the guys that actually testified. Dr. John Edeen (08:59) like this can't go, I gotta do something about it. And he was one of the guys that actually testified. Alex Ooley (09:09) the of the CDC doing the biased research and they got the Hughes Amendment passed. So he was actually instrumental, was one of the four people that testified Dr. John Edeen (09:09) the of the CDC doing the biased research and they got the Hughes Amendment passed. So he was actually instrumental, was one of the four people that testified Alex Ooley (09:21) And so he's been out, he's now since retired and stepped away. But he's still, you I still get an email from him every once in while. So, so are, I assume are all members doctors? No, not at all. In fact, we have some lawyers that are even. Okay. can't believe it or not. Okay. But you, can be a doctor, a nurse, you know, we have guys that are EMTs, people, just regular people can join too. Okay. And it's like $35. Dr. John Edeen (09:21) And so he's been out, he's now since retired and stepped away. But he's still, you I still get an email from him every once in while. So, so are, I assume are all members doctors? No, not all. In fact, we have some lawyers that are even. Okay. can't believe it or not. Okay. But you, can be a doctor, a nurse, you know, we have guys that are EMTs, people, just regular people can join too. Okay. And it's like $35. Alex Ooley (09:50) since we're part of the Second Amendment Foundation. So when did it become part of the Second Amendment Foundation? you know the timeline there? Probably about... As far as I've known about it? Yeah, seven or eight years ago, probably. Maybe ten. Dr. John Edeen (09:50) since we're part of the Second Amendment Foundation. So when did it become part of the Second Amendment Foundation? you know the timeline there? Probably about... As far as I've known about it? Yeah, seven or eight years ago, probably. Maybe ten. Alex Ooley (10:07) So you were part of it before then? Yeah, I was part of since 2013. So it had to be before 2013. Gotcha. what are some of the things, I mean obviously Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership wants to advocate for the Second Amendment from a medical perspective. But what is part of its mission? Dr. John Edeen (10:07) So you were part of it before then? Yeah, I was part of since 2013. So it had to be before 2013. Gotcha. what are some of the things, I mean obviously Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership wants to advocate for the Second Amendment from a medical perspective. But what is part of its mission? Alex Ooley (10:32) What is it intended to do? the first thing that we do is we look at the medical literature. And when we see bias, this is like Tim Wheeler's thing. Look at the bias in the literature and then critique it and put it out there. We have a website. It's called drgo.us. It's Dr. Schroeder's responsible gun ownership. And so we have a lot of really good articles in there. There's a lot of information. Dr. John Edeen (10:32) What is it intended to do? the first thing that we do is we look at the medical literature. And when we see bias, this is like Tim Wheeler's thing. Look at the bias in the literature and then critique it and put it out there. We have a website. It's called drgo.us. It's Dr. Schroeder's responsible gun ownership. And so we have a lot of really good articles in there. There's a lot of information. Alex Ooley (11:00) We're also, we have a lot of stuff on Facebook too. We see a biased thing from the AMA or JAMA or whatever. We'll critique that and we've been doing editorials. We've also had some amicus briefs in some of Dr. John Edeen (11:00) We're also, we have a lot of stuff on Facebook too. We see a biased thing from the AMA or JAMA or whatever. We'll critique that and we've been doing editorials. We've also had some amicus briefs in some of Alex Ooley (11:25) Okay. ⁓ Dr. John Edeen (11:25) Okay. ⁓ Alex Ooley (11:33) So we'll do some advocacy stuff as well. I put up the website for those watching the podcast by video. put up the website on the screen there. Again, it's drgo.us. you can see they've got, I put up the mission statement here, but they've got an article archive and you can see Tim Wheeler, Robert Young, John Aden and Glenn Otero listed there ⁓ as contributors. And ⁓ there's just a... Dr. John Edeen (11:33) So we'll do some advocacy stuff as well. I put up the website for those watching the podcast by video. put up the website on the screen there. Again, it's drgo.us. you can see they've got, I put up the mission statement here, but they've got an article archive and you can see Tim Wheeler, Robert Young, John Aden and Glenn Otero listed there ⁓ as contributors. And ⁓ there's just a... Alex Ooley (12:03) A document archive, there's a plethora of information here available about all the issues. a lot of stuff that's intellectual ammunition that you can use in both arguing with your friends and colleagues, but also if there are legal stuff coming up in legislature, trying to pass laws that may be objectionable to you. Dr. John Edeen (12:03) A document archive, there's a plethora of information here available about all the issues. a lot of stuff that's intellectual ammunition that you can use in both arguing with your friends and colleagues, but also if there are legal stuff coming up in legislature, trying to pass laws that may be objectionable to you. Alex Ooley (12:31) There's some stuff in here that you can use to back up your arguments with. Dr. John Edeen (12:31) There's some stuff in here that you can use to back up your arguments with. Alex Ooley (12:37) for instance, the suppressor stuff that's been going on lately. We have a lot of states that now have legalized suppressors, but there are also oppressor states that are trying to outlaw suppressors. The ENT doctors about a year ago actually sent out a position statement that says that suppressors are the best way to protect hearing. Because not only do they protect the hearing of the person who's shooting, Dr. John Edeen (12:37) for instance, the suppressor stuff that's been going on lately. We have a lot of states that now have legalized suppressors, but there are also oppressor states that are trying to outlaw suppressors. The ENT doctors about a year ago actually sent out a position statement that says that suppressors are the best way to protect hearing. Because not only do they protect the hearing of the person who's shooting, Alex Ooley (13:10) And you have to understand that a gunshot is about 175 decibels and that one shot is enough to give you permanent hearing loss. So it's very important to protect your hearing with a suppressor and in addition buffs and plugs and whatever else you can do. But you have to understand that noise not only goes into your ear but it goes into your skull and you get bone conduction. Dr. John Edeen (13:10) And you have to understand that a gunshot is about 175 decibels and that one shot is enough to give you permanent hearing loss. So it's very important to protect your hearing with a suppressor and in addition buffs and plugs and whatever else you can do. But you have to understand that noise not only goes into your ear but it goes into your skull and you get bone conduction. We have a really good paper that we actually put in our website for 2017 that was put out by a bunch of ENT people, one of which was Tim Wheeler of course, but there were also guys that were neuro-autologists. Alex Ooley (13:42) We have a really good paper that we actually put in our website for 2017 that was put out by a bunch of ENT people, one of which was Tim Wheeler of course, but there were also guys that were a neuro-ontologist. Dr. John Edeen (13:58) They're the guys that actually study sensory neural neurons. And it's a phenomenal paper. It talks about the level of sound. It also has like photo micrographs of the inner ear and the cochlea, of the hair cells and like before normal healthy ones and then ones that have been damaged by sound. So this is the kind of stuff that you can take and give it to your Alex Ooley (13:58) They're the guys that actually study sensory neuro-humanism. And it's a phenomenal paper. It talks about the level of sound. It also has like photomicrographs of the inner ear and the cochlea, of the hair cells and like the four normal healthy ones and then ones that have been damaged by sound. And so this is the kind of stuff that you can take with you and give it to your representatives of the government and say, Dr. John Edeen (14:23) representatives in the government and say, look, Alex Ooley (14:26) this is what's going on. In fact, Virginia, you know, they just passed all these bills that were anti-gun. some of our doctors actually testified in front of the committees, and they gave them this information, and they actually killed the bill that was going to outlaw suppressors because of that. And so, yes, it can be effective. You can make a difference. Dr. John Edeen (14:26) going on. In fact, Virginia, you know, they just passed all these bills that were anti-gun. some of our doctors actually testified in front of the committees and they gave them this information and they actually killed the bill that was going to outlaw suppressors because of that. And so, yes, it can be effective. You can make a difference. And like you said, there are many states that trying to outlaw or already outlaw suppressors. ⁓ But there's also this push at the federal level, with the Hearing Protection Act and other initiatives to try to, there's currently a lawsuit pending in federal court to try to ⁓ overturn or to challenge the inclusion of suppressors in the National Firearms Act. And so this material is very persuasive material for those efforts as well. Alex Ooley (14:53) And like you said, there are many states that trying to outlaw or already outlaw suppressors. ⁓ But there's also this push at the federal level, right, with the Hearing Protection Act and other initiatives to try to, there's currently a lawsuit pending in federal court to try to ⁓ overturn or to challenge the inclusion of suppressors in the National Firearms Act. And so this material is very persuasive material for those efforts as well. So if you can get this information to your personal representatives and say, look, know, this is what the science says. You can make an argument based on science, not on, you know, oh, know, the criminals will have suppressors and nobody will be able to hear them kill somebody. Which is a bunch of crap, by the Yeah, they're not silencers. No, they're not. They don't make it silent. They lower the signature by about 30 decimals. Dr. John Edeen (15:20) So if you can get this information to your personal representatives and say, look, know, this is what the science says. You can make an argument based on science, not on, you know, ⁓ know, the criminals will have suppressors and nobody will be able to hear them kill somebody. Which is a bunch of crap, by the Yeah, they're not silencers. No, they're not. They don't make it silent. They lower the signature by about 30 decimals. ⁓ Alex Ooley (15:50) But 170 to 140 decibels is still pretty dang loud. And sometimes it's hearing safe, sometimes it's not hearing safe. Once you get down to the 100 decibel range, that is probably more hearing safe. you should still wear plugs and muffs. Dr. John Edeen (15:50) But 170 to 140 decibels is still pretty dang loud. And sometimes it's hearing safe, sometimes it's not hearing safe. Once you get down to the 100 decibel range, that is probably more hearing safe. you should still wear plugs and muffs. Alex Ooley (16:15) So 22's work. Dr. John Edeen (16:15) So 22's work. Alex Ooley (16:20) Yeah. the, of the, of of the gunshot. Which is kind of an odd experience the first time you hear it. Yes. To, to, hear the That's right. Because you usually don't hear it. You usually hear bang. Yeah. Not, chh, chh. Yeah. Exactly. So it's kind of an interesting way to go, John. Yeah. So I've got the position paper pulled up here on the screen, actually. And I'd like you to, if you, if you don't mind, I'm going to scroll down to what you were referring to, some of these images of the inner ear. Dr. John Edeen (16:20) Yeah. the, of the, of of the gunshot. Which is kind of an odd experience the first time you hear it. Yes. To, to, hear the That's right. Because you usually don't hear it. You usually hear bang. Yeah. Not, chh, chh. Yeah. Exactly. So it's kind of an interesting way to go, John. Yeah. So I've got the position paper pulled up here on the screen, actually. And I'd like you to, if you, if you don't mind, I'm going to scroll down to what you were referring to, some of these images of the inner ear. Alex Ooley (16:46) Could you tell us a little bit about what's going on here in some of these images? you know, the cochlea is a snail-shaped organ. The ear basically is your outer ear, the ear canal, the ear drum. There are three little bones attached to the ear drum, and so when the sound hits the ear drum, it causes slight vibrations which are transmitted through those three little bones, and there's something called the oval window. Dr. John Edeen (16:46) Could you tell us a little bit about what's going on here in some of these images? you know, the cochlea is a snail-shaped organ. The ear basically is your outer ear, the ear canal, the ear drum. There are three little bones attached to the ear drum, and so when the sound hits the ear drum, it causes slight vibrations which are transmitted through those three little bones, and there's something called the oval window. Alex Ooley (17:11) where the last bone is attached to, and that vibrates back and forth, and that causes a fluid wave in the cochlea. And so the cochlea is wider, it's opening, and it gets more more narrow. So basically when the sound waves reach the resonance of where you are in the cochlea, it causes those little hairs to vibrate, and that's how you perceive sound. It stimulates the nerve, it goes into your brain, that's how you Dr. John Edeen (17:11) where the last bone is attached to, and that vibrates back and forth, and that causes a fluid wave in the cochlea. And so the cochlea is wider, it's opening, and it gets more more narrow. So basically when the sound waves reach the resonance of where you are in the cochlea, it causes those little hairs to vibrate, and that's how you perceive sound. It stimulates the nerve, it goes into your brain, that's how you Alex Ooley (17:42) But if you have a huge vibration, if there's enough of a wave, can actually damage those little hair cells and they do not regenerate. Once you kill them, they're dead. Now, most of us have probably experienced shooting a gun and then having ringing in their ears. know, either like your ear muff doesn't seal properly or your ear plug comes loose or whatever. Well, that ringing in your ears is your hair cells dying. Dr. John Edeen (17:42) But if you have a huge vibration, if there's enough of a wave, can actually damage those little hair cells and they do not regenerate. Once you kill them, they're dead. Now, most of us have probably experienced shooting a gun and then having ringing in their ears. know, either like your ear muff doesn't seal properly or your ear plug comes loose or whatever. Well, that ringing in your ears is your hair cells dying. Alex Ooley (18:10) Okay, and so because they are like they're just like the little rods and cones in your eyes for light They're the kind of the rods and cones in your ear for you. Okay, and so you lose those you lose some of hearing Me personally, I've got some pretty bad hearing loss. Yeah from the military and military and from loud rock and roll music Yeah, and then of course from firing guns. Yeah. Yeah but Dr. John Edeen (18:10) Okay, and so because they are like they're just like the little rods and cones in your eyes for light They're the kind of the rods and cones in your ear for you. Okay, and so you lose those you lose some of hearing Me personally, I've got some pretty bad hearing loss. Yeah from the military and military and from loud rock and roll music Yeah, and then of course from firing guns. Yeah. Yeah but Alex Ooley (18:40) So the nice thing about the suppressor is that it dampens the sound at the source. So you don't get that blast of shock wave from the firearm. You don't get the eardrum... Dr. John Edeen (18:40) So the nice thing about the suppressor is that it dampens the sound at the source. And so you don't get that blast of shock wave from the firearm. And you don't get the ear drum waving back and forth. And you don't get the shock wave going into your skull that gives direct sensory neural vibrations into the cocaine. Alex Ooley (18:56) waving back and forth, and you don't get the shock wave going into your skull that gives direct sensory neural vibrations into the cochlea. So it's definitely the best way to deal with it. And the E &T guys, the science says it. They're the experts. I'm a bone doctor, but not those bones. I do the arms and the legs. I don't do the ear bones. But we all learn about this stuff. ⁓ Dr. John Edeen (19:04) It's definitely the best way to deal with it. The E &T guys, the science says it. They're the experts. I'm a bone doctor, but not those bones. I do the arms and the legs. I don't do the ear bones. But we all learn about this stuff. Science Alex Ooley (19:23) Science is science, it's basic. This stuff is irrefutable. It's not like climate change. Right. Dr. John Edeen (19:23) is science. It's basic. This stuff is irrefutable. It's not like climate change. Yeah, where there's a legitimate debate, right? This is pretty solid evidence, right? The Claremont Foundation, that's where it was. Okay. I knew it. It took me a while to That started DRGO? DRGO was part of the Claremont Foundation in the beginning and then the Second Amendment Foundation took over. Alex Ooley (19:32) Where there's a legitimate debate, right? This is pretty solid evidence, right? The Claremont Foundation, that's what it was. Okay. I knew it, took me a They started DRGO? DRGO was part of the Claremont Foundation in the beginning and then the Second Amendment Foundation took over. Dr. John Edeen (19:51) I knew I remembered something. There you go. I'm going to scroll down a little bit more here because there's another graphic I want to show. Alex Ooley (19:51) I knew I remember seeing There you go. I'm going to scroll down a little bit more here because there's another graphic I want to show. You were saying that a firearm typically emits 170 decibels approximately. Give or take. It's a logarithmic scale by the way. Okay. Explain that. 10 decibels is X. 20 decibels is 10X. It's not 2X. It's 10X. Dr. John Edeen (19:57) You were saying that a firearm typically emits 170 decibels approximately. Give or take. It's a logarithmic scale by the way. Okay. Explain that. 10 decibels is X. 20 decibels is 10X. It's not 2X, it's 10X. Alex Ooley (20:19) 30 decibels is 100x and 40 decibels is 1000x. So it goes up by tens rather than by ones. so 70 decibels is a lot of energy. And so a reduction of 30 to 40 is very significant as well, So what a suppressor can accomplish. That's a thousand times less. So if you couple... Dr. John Edeen (20:19) 30 decibels is 100x and 40 decibels is 1000x. So it goes up by tens rather than by ones. so 70 decibels is a lot of energy. And so a reduction of 30 to 40 is very significant as well, right? So what a suppressor can accomplish. That's a thousand times less. So if you couple... Alex Ooley (20:45) So you're going to take a firearm, a typical firearm signature from 170 to 140 or 130 depending on still loud. Still very loud. And then if you couple that with hearing protection, right, which is another 25 to 40 decibels, probably... That's a very effective way of protecting your hearing. Right. So you're down to about 100 decibels, right, which is still, I mean, that's still about the sound of a lawnmower. Dr. John Edeen (20:45) So you're going to take a firearm, a typical firearm signature from 170 to 140 or 130 depending on still loud. Still very loud. And then if you couple that with hearing protection, right, which is another 25 to 40 decibels, probably... That's a very effective way of protecting your hearing. Right. So you're down to about 100 decibels, right, which is still, I mean, that's still about the sound of a lawnmower. Alex Ooley (21:11) according to this graphic that I'm putting. So it's still very loud even with a suppressor, even with hearing protection. prolonged exposure can still cause damage. That's the other thing. It's not only, you have the short sharpening, but it's also a prolonged exposure can cause damage as well. So you have to be aware of both of those effects. So if somebody says, why would I need a suppressor if I'm wearing hearing protection? Well, the hearing protection still only gets you to the 130, 140 decibel range, right? Which is, according to this chart, Dr. John Edeen (21:11) according to this graphic that I'm putting. So it's still very loud even with a suppressor, even with hearing protection. prolonged exposure can still cause damage. That's the other thing. It's not only, you have the short sharpening, but it's also a prolonged exposure can cause damage as well. So you have to be aware of both of those effects. So if somebody says, why would I need a suppressor if I'm wearing hearing protection? Well, the hearing protection still only gets you to the 130, 140 decibel range, right? Which is, according to this chart, Alex Ooley (21:41) between a jackhammer and a firecracker. Right. It's not good. Still not good. No, still not good. So that's part of the motivation, right, behind trying to remove the regulations and prohibitions on suppressors. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. So that's one of the issues. We're not going to be able to get into all the issues that DRGO helps address. But I want to talk a little bit about another of the other issues. One is Dr. John Edeen (21:41) between a jackhammer and a firecracker. Right. It's not good. Still not good. No, still not good. So that's part of the motivation, right, behind trying to remove the regulations and prohibitions on suppressors. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. So that's one of the issues. We're not going to be able to get into all the issues that DRGO helps address. But I want to talk a little bit about another of the other issues. One is Alex Ooley (22:11) You talk a lot about how people as patients should interact with their doctors. Can we get into that a little bit? Yeah, sure. So, you know, I mean, we've all had the experience where your doctor, you know, comes up, you you get a questionnaire or health questionnaire and one of the questions is, you know, do you own a gun? So the question is, now what? What if you don't want to tell your doctor that you own a gun? It's none of his business, first of all. You know, um... Dr. John Edeen (22:11) You talk a lot about how people as patients should interact with their doctors. Can we get into that a little bit? Yeah, sure. So, you know, I mean, we've all had the experience where your doctor, you know, comes up, you you get a questionnaire or health questionnaire and one of the questions is, you know, do you own a gun? So the question is, now what? What if you don't want to tell your doctor that you own a gun? It's none of his business, first of all. You know, um... Alex Ooley (22:40) And second of all, ⁓ in the age of electronic medical records, it's not private. That stuff is, your insurance company gets it. Which could affect your premiums potentially? maybe even the government itself, you have a government insurance. Dr. John Edeen (22:40) And second of all, ⁓ in the age of electronic medical records, it's not private. That stuff is, your insurance company gets it. Which could affect your premiums potentially? maybe even the government itself, you have a government insurance. Alex Ooley (23:00) So that's kind of... What's the impetus behind that question? How did it get included in standard intake protocols? Well, you have to understand that medical academia is anti-government. It's been that way for probably... Dr. John Edeen (23:00) So that's kind of... What's the impetus behind that question? How did it get included in standard intake protocols? Well, you have to understand that medical academia is anti-government. It's been that way for probably... Alex Ooley (23:22) We all ask ourselves, why do they want to disarm us to begin with? And it's all part of that leftist disarm them and then we can do what we want. They can't resist. Dr. John Edeen (23:22) We all ask ourselves, why do they want to disarm us to begin with? And it's all part of that leftist disarm them and then we can do what we want. They can't resist. Alex Ooley (23:57) because I think a lot of the public health people, they decided that they wanted to make guns a public health issue. that guns are bad, they were the vector of death in this Dr. John Edeen (23:57) because I think a lot of the public health people, they decided that they wanted to make guns a public health issue. that guns are bad, they were the vector of death in this Alex Ooley (24:18) It's not the gun that's the problem, it's the criminal that's the problem. Right. And I want to talk about that. You mentioned public health. I think I'll save this more, an in-depth discussion about public health for a separate podcast, but I'd like to talk about this concept for just a moment. Yeah. What's, to me, just the name itself, public health. Dr. John Edeen (24:18) It's not the gun that's the problem, it's the criminal that's the problem. Right. And I want to talk about that. You mentioned public health. I think I'll save this more, an in-depth discussion about public health for a separate podcast. But I'd to talk about this concept for just a moment. Yeah. What's, to me, just the name itself, public health. Alex Ooley (24:37) is kind of a loaded concept. sure it is, because everybody's for public health. Everybody's for public all want to be healthy. But there's also no such thing as public health, at least in my mind. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. individual health. That's right. There is no health of the public. But when you live in a collective world, the government is involved in everything. Public health becomes part of the government. Dr. John Edeen (24:37) is kind of a loaded concept. sure it is, because everybody's for public health. Everybody's for public all want to be healthy. But there's also no such thing as public health, at least in my mind. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. individual health. That's right. There is no health of the public. But when you live in a collective world, the government is involved in everything. Public health becomes part of the government. Alex Ooley (25:03) control over your life. Right. And so as an independent citizen who's a firearms owner and somebody who advocates for Second Amendment stuff, that goes very much against the grain for me. Yeah. And so I'm very much against that. In fact, know, the doctors... I don't know how many doctors have prevented people getting shot at robberies. I don't know how many doctors Dr. John Edeen (25:03) control over your life. Right. And so as an independent citizen who's a firearms owner and somebody who advocates for Second Amendment stuff, that goes very much against the grain for me. Yeah. And so I'm very much against that. In fact, know, the doctors... I don't know how many doctors have prevented people getting shot at robberies. I don't know how many doctors Alex Ooley (25:34) You know, that's not what we do. What we do well is when the guy gets shot and they come into the ER, if they're alive we can probably keep them alive. Because our trauma system has done so well. In fact, some of the murder rates have gone down because the trauma system is so good that people who would have died survived. Dr. John Edeen (25:34) You know, that's not what we do. What we do well is when the guy gets shot and they come into the ER, if they're alive we can probably keep them alive. Because our trauma system has done so well. In fact, some of the murder rates have gone down because the trauma system is so good that people who would have died survived. Alex Ooley (25:52) And you look at some of these gang bangers, man, they've got scars all over them. they've got their bellies been zipped open. Why? Because they've been shot and they've been saved and they go back out and do it again. And I personally have experienced that. I worked at a trauma center at UC Davis in Sacramento, which is the trauma center for the northern half of California. So you can imagine the stuff that came in that place. But you see people that survived that probably wouldn't have survived 50 years ago. Dr. John Edeen (25:52) And you look at some of these gang bangers, man, they've got scars all over them. they've got their bellies been zipped open. Why? Because they've been shot and they've been saved and they go back out and do it again. And I personally have experienced that. I worked at a trauma center at UC Davis in Sacramento, which is the trauma center for the northern half of California. So you can imagine the stuff that came in that place. But you see people that survived that probably wouldn't have survived 50 years ago. Alex Ooley (26:21) So public health, in my mind, is a lot like the phrase gun violence. Guns don't commit gun violence, ⁓ or don't commit violence rather, and the public doesn't have health. You have health, ⁓ I have health, don't have health right now, I'm gonna cough here in a second. Individuals commit violence, individuals have health. By making it this... Dr. John Edeen (26:21) So public health, in my mind, is a lot like the phrase gun violence. Guns don't commit gun violence, ⁓ or don't commit violence rather, and the public doesn't have health. You have health, ⁓ I have health, don't have health right now, I'm gonna cough here in a second. Individuals commit violence, individuals have health. By making it this... Alex Ooley (26:47) You sort of make this fake concept, right? This fake construct, and then that gives the government an excuse, end to try to address that fake problem. absolutely. Again, it's all about control. It's about control. It's all about control. And it's all about money too. I mean, there are two publicly funded anti-gun public health... There's one in California, there's one in New Jersey. One is with UC Davis, one's at Records. And they're publicly funded, but they're... Dr. John Edeen (26:47) You sort of make this fake concept, right? This fake construct, and then that gives the government an excuse, end to try to address that fake problem. absolutely. Again, it's all about control. It's about control. It's all about control. And it's all about money too. I mean, there are two publicly funded anti-gun public health... There's one in California, there's one in New Jersey. One is with UC Davis, one's at Records. And they're publicly funded, but they're... Alex Ooley (27:17) But it takes away the personal responsibility from the equation. takes public health says, okay, government, here's a problem we can address, public health, right? And it takes individual accountability out of the health equation, right? Same with gun violence. Dr. John Edeen (27:17) But it takes away the personal responsibility from the equation. takes public health says, okay, government, here's a problem we can address, public health, right? And it takes individual accountability out of the health equation, right? Same with gun violence. Alex Ooley (27:34) gun violence is a is a fake problem the government can try to solve it takes are violent it takes your guns are violent it takes individual responsibility and accountability out of the equation it's all about the guy who's behind the gun the gun is just a tool it's an enemy you put it on the table it's not going to shoot at you Dr. John Edeen (27:34) Gun violence is a fake problem the government can try to solve. guns aren't violent. know your guns aren't violent. It takes individual responsibility and accountability out of the equation. It's all about the guy who's behind the gun, not the gun itself. The gun is just a tool. It's in the end of it. You put it on the table, it's not going to shoot anything. Alex Ooley (27:53) It's the guy that picks it up and points it at you in the middle of a robbery, that's the problem. And that's why doctors are not the proper people. It's criminologists, it's economists, Dr. John Edeen (27:53) It's the guy that picks it up and points it at you in the middle of a robbery. That's the problem. And that's why doctors are not the proper people. It's criminologists, it's economists. There there was a certain really bestudying this stuff. Not doctors. We're not really, we're not effective at coming up with the answers because our premise is the guns the problem. And if you start off with a false premise, all of your data is BS. Alex Ooley (28:03) they're ones that should really be studying this stuff, not doctors. We're not really, we're not effective at coming up with the answers because our premise is the gun's the problem. And if you start off with a false premise, all of your data is BS. All your conclusions are biased and they're just not valid. put Dr. John Edeen (28:21) All your conclusions are biased and they're just not valid. Alex Ooley (28:27) it that way. Right. And if you start out with the premise that the public has health, everything from that premise is garbage in, garbage out. That's right. ⁓ Dr. John Edeen (28:27) Right, and if you start out with the premise that the public has health, everything from that premise is garbage in, garbage out. That's right. Well, I don't want to Alex Ooley (28:42) address like I said I don't want to address all the questions that the DRGO addresses but what are let's maybe one other that we might chat about for just a moment. can go back to the what do do if your doctor asks you about your gun. I think there's a lot to be said for that. Dr. John Edeen (28:42) address, like I said, I don't want to address all the questions that the DRGO addresses. What's maybe one other that we might chat about for just a moment? Well, we can go back to what you do if your doctor asks you about your gonorrhea. I think there's a lot to be said for that. Alex Ooley (28:55) Okay. So some of the things that you can do one of which is you just don't answer the question or anything. Now it's not good to lie to your doctor about most things but you know what Dr. John Edeen (28:56) So some of the things that you can do, one of which is you just don't answer the question or you can't explain. Now it's not good to lie to your doctor about most things, but you know what, as Tom Gresham says, it's not a sin to tell a lie if the person that's asking the question doesn't have the right to know. Fair enough, yeah. And so I think it's fair to either not answer the question or whatever. Now if they become persistent, Alex Ooley (29:06) As Tom Gresham says, it's not a sin to tell a lie if the person that's asking the question doesn't have the right to know. Fair enough. And so I think it's fair to either not answer the question or whatever. Now if they become persistent, Dr. John Edeen (29:25) can patiently, you can pull the... Alex Ooley (29:25) can basically, you can fill the, Let's just say this, can ask them what's your training in this? Dr. John Edeen (29:31) Just say this, can ask them what's your training in this? What are your... Alex Ooley (29:41) to give me advice about firearms. Are you certified by any, by some kind of organization in firearms? And of course, most doctors are not. I am. I'm a Masada U Group instructor. I'm an NRA instructor. I'm Range Master instructor. I can tell you that. I know about that stuff. And if they keep really giving you a hard time, can basically, Dr. John Edeen (29:41) to give me advice about firearms. Are you certified by any, by some kind of organization in firearms? And of course, most doctors are not. I am. I'm a Masada U Group instructor. I'm an NRA instructor. I'm Range Master instructor. I can tell you that. I know about that stuff. And if they keep really giving you a hard time, can basically, Alex Ooley (30:09) to the state medical board for something called a boundary violation. So a boundary violation is basically when the doctor pushes some type of an agenda that's not beneficial to the patient, it's not in his interest, it's in the doctor's interest. Here's a really classic example of boundary violation, having sex with your patient. That's a boundary violation, right? That's not a boundary that should be crossed. It's the same thing here, and it's a very serious thing. Dr. John Edeen (30:09) to the state medical board for something called a boundary violation. So a boundary violation is basically when the doctor pushes some type of an agenda that's not beneficial to the patient, it's not in his interest, it's in the doctor's interest. Here's a really classic example of boundary violation, having sex with your patient. That's a boundary violation, right? That's not a boundary that should be crossed. It's the same thing here, and it's a very serious thing. Alex Ooley (30:38) So you report that to your state medical board, they will do an investigation and the doctor has to answer it. It's a big deal. Believe me, I know. Because I've had inquiries based on make a complaint and then they have to answer it. That's part of the state medical board's job of making sure doctors are doing the right thing. Dr. John Edeen (30:38) So you report that to your state medical board, they will do an investigation and the doctor has to answer it. It's a big deal. Believe me, I know. Because I've had inquiries based on make a complaint and then they have to answer it. That's part of the state medical board's job of making sure doctors are doing the right thing. Alex Ooley (31:00) What relevance does whether or not I own a firearm have if I come to see you for a broken leg? Exactly. That's exactly, you they're going to say, well, you know, we want to give safety information. said, oh yeah. I know more about gun safety than you'll ever know. So let's just skip it and go home. You don't ask if I have fire extinguishers in my home. Dr. John Edeen (31:00) What relevance does whether or not I own a firearm have if I come to see you for a broken leg? Exactly. That's exactly, you they're going to say, well, you know, we want to give safety information. said, oh yeah. I know more about gun safety than you'll ever know. So let's just skip it and go home. You don't ask if I have fire extinguishers in my home. Alex Ooley (31:21) Well sometimes they go down there. Like, pediatricians are really good about doing things like swimming pools, power-ups, thinking short. Oh, for child safety? Yeah, for child safety. But, you know, the problem is this. What's the advice they're going to give you? It's going to be lock your guns up, separate your ammo. What happens if somebody breaks into your house in the middle of the and decides he wants to kill your family? You can't get to your gun. Dr. John Edeen (31:21) Well sometimes they go down there. Like, pediatricians are really good about doing things like swimming pools, power-ups, thinking short. Oh, for child safety? Yeah, for child safety. But, you know, the problem is this. What's the advice they're going to give you? It's going to be lock your guns up, separate your ammo. What happens if somebody breaks into your house in the middle of the and decides he wants to kill your family? You can't get to your gun. Alex Ooley (31:46) Here's another thing I ask, well doctor, does your insurance company know that you're practicing outside of your scope of medical practice and that you're giving advice that you're not qualified to do? And if I'm harmed by following your advice, will your insurance company cover you for that? All of a sudden their eyes get really big and their face gets kind of pale and they start thinking about, well maybe I shouldn't be doing this. So these are the weapons that you have at your disposal. Dr. John Edeen (31:46) Here's another thing I ask, well doctor, does your insurance company know that you're practicing outside of your scope of medical practice and that you're giving advice that you're not qualified to do? And if I'm harmed by following your advice, will your insurance company cover you for that? All of a sudden their eyes get really big and their face gets kind of pale and they start thinking about, well maybe I shouldn't be doing this. So these are the weapons that you have at your disposal. Alex Ooley (32:15) you can use. There's also, there's a form that the sheriff in Los Angeles County put out years ago, and I can't remember his name on here, but it's basically a form that you have the doctor fill out that specifies what their training is in firearms and that kind thing. And you hand that to him. And then the doctor's gonna go, uh, what do I do with this? Dr. John Edeen (32:15) that you can Also, there's a form that a sheriff in Los Angeles County put out years ago, and I can't remember his name offhand. But it's basically a form that have the doctor fill out that specifies what their training is in firearms and that kind And you hand that to him. And then the doctor's gonna go, uh, what do I do with this? I can't tell you. Alex Ooley (32:45) I want to be a devil's advocate here for a moment. So I think part of the issue is bias, but part of the bias stems from I think a lack of information that many doctors have about the effectiveness of firearms or the utility of firearms, right? So doctors, they would say, we're asking about guns for the same reason that we ask about fire extinguishers or pools or whatever, because Dr. John Edeen (32:47) be a devil's advocate here for a moment. So I think part of the issue is bias, but part of the bias stems from I think a lack of information that many doctors have about the effectiveness of firearms or the utility of firearms, right? So doctors, they would say, well, we're asking about guns for the same reason that we ask about fire extinguishers or pools or whatever, because Alex Ooley (33:11) we see the relative risk of a home invasion as relatively minor as compared to the child accessing a firearm and hurting themselves or others from inappropriate access. Can you address that issue and what it takes to sort of correct that misconception within the medical community? Well, first of all, none of us want children to get hurt. Dr. John Edeen (33:11) we see the relative risk of a home invasion as relatively minor as compared to the child accessing a firearm and hurting themselves or others from inappropriate access. Can you address that issue and what it takes to sort of correct that misconception within the medical community? Well, first of all, none of us want children to get hurt. We are in agreement that guns should be locked up away from children. Yes. But also they should be accessible to the adult who leads to. So we advocate for things like rapid access seats, things like that. You can have it at the bedside, press the buttons or free to think, thumb print or whatever, and it pops open. Alex Ooley (33:37) We are in agreement that guns should be locked up away from children. Yes. But also they should be accessible to the adult who needs to. So we advocate for things like rapid access seats, things like that. You can have it at the bedside, can press the buttons or free to think, thumb print or whatever. They want to get rid of guns, They don't want you to have a gun in the home. And they quote some of the old literature that's been disproving about your three times higher risk of dying from a gun in your home than if you... Dr. John Edeen (34:02) They want to get rid of guns, They don't want you to have a gun in the home. And they quote some of the old literature that's been disproving about your three times higher risk of dying from a gun in your home than Does DRGO have ⁓ papers or articles on that issue? We have some of the stuff in there. It's probably referenced in some of our articles. There's so much in there right now that I don't think I could go back and read it all. My brain would explode. There is a lot of great content. But here's going back to the public health issue. Alex Ooley (34:24) Does DRGO have ⁓ papers or articles on that issue? We have some of the stuff in there. It's probably referenced in some of our articles. There's so much in there right now that I don't think I could go back and read it all. My brain would explode. There is a lot of great content. But here's going back to the public health issue. they want to get rid of all guns and this this goes back to the responsible gun ownership doctors for responsible gun ownership you're talking about safely storing firearms you're talking about not making firearms accessible to children right and that's something that all responsible off gun owners care about absolutely but also they're treating you as part of this public health right so they don't care about you in particular or the risk to you or or Dr. John Edeen (34:47) they want to get rid of all guns and this this goes back to the responsible gun ownership doctors for responsible gun ownership you're talking about safely storing firearms you're talking about not making firearms accessible to children right and that's something that all responsible off gun owners care about absolutely but also they're treating you as part of this public health right so they don't care about you in particular or the risk to you or or Alex Ooley (35:14) The utility you may get from having a firearm for self-defense or defense of your family, they care about the broader public health. It's a collective mentality. Exactly. So they say, they see on balance, or they perceive on balance that if guns were eliminated, that'd be better for everybody, even though it's not better for you in particular. Here's the thing that, here's the dirty little secret, okay? When they look at the studies of ⁓ quote unquote gun violence, Dr. John Edeen (35:14) The utility you may get from having a firearm for self-defense or defense of your family, they care about the broader public health. It's a collective mentality. Exactly. So they say, they see on balance, or they perceive on balance that if guns were eliminated, that'd be better for everybody, even though it's not better for you in particular. Well, here's the thing that, here's the dirty little secret, okay? When they look at the studies of quote unquote gun violence, Alex Ooley (35:43) Do they ever include defensive gun uses in those studies? No. And so they say, know, well, 30,000 people a year are killed by guns, and of course half of them at least are sent to suicide. Yeah. Right? But they don't talk about the 2.4 million defensive gun uses that stop criminals, that stop murder, that stop, know, maiming and Dr. John Edeen (35:43) they ever include defensive gun uses in those studies? No. And so they say, know, well, 30,000 people a year are killed by guns, and of course half of them at least are But they don't talk about the 2.4 million defensive gun uses that stop criminals, that stop murder, that stop maiming and stuff. And that's the dirty secret. Is that they only look at one side of the coin, they never look at the other side of the coin. So there's no balance in their perspective. Alex Ooley (36:06) That's the dirty secret. They only look at one side of the coin, they never look at the other side of the coin. So there's no balance in their perspective. And even if you don't believe the 2.4 million number, because they often attack the sources and the credibility of the people, they never attack the numbers. They attack the source of the numbers. But even if you don't believe that number... Dr. John Edeen (36:17) believe the 2.4 million number because they often attack the sources and the credibility of the people. They never attack the numbers. They attack the source of the numbers. But even if you don't believe that number, the numbers, the most conservative estimates are in the hundreds of thousands. Which is still far... higher than the amount of... That's right. know, Gary Klick looked at all these numbers. He's a criminologist. Alex Ooley (36:29) The numbers, the most conservative estimates are in the hundreds of thousands. Right, which is still more magnitude higher than the amount of... That's right. And, know, Gary Kleck looked at all these numbers. He's a criminologist, and in fact, he went back and looked at... The CDC had done a second survey, and he was looking for some stuff, and he came upon the survey that was never published, which confirmed a lot of his numbers. Dr. John Edeen (36:47) He went back and looked at the CDC had done a second survey and he was looking for some stuff and he came upon the survey that was never published which confirmed a lot of his numbers. Alex Ooley (36:59) So the stuff has been validated and I think that... Dr. John Edeen (37:00) So the stuff has been validated and I think that when you look at those studies Alex Ooley (37:06) look at those studies. data is there. It's repeatable over separate years. They are representative samples, it's pretty convincing that those numbers are valid. If somebody wants to join DRGO as a member, obviously they can go to the website, and I'm going to link to the page to join DRGO. Dr. John Edeen (37:10) data is there. It's repeatable over separate years. They are representative samples, it's pretty convincing that those numbers are valid. If somebody wants to join DRGO as a member, obviously they can go to the website, and I'm going to link to the page to join DRGO. Alex Ooley (37:37) Is it a donation or are there any benefits to the membership? Do you have access to certain? We asked you to participate too. You can write articles. You can do stuff. I started off because I wanted to learn how to testify and try to be an advocate. Dr. John Edeen (37:37) Is it a donation or are there any benefits to the membership? Do you have access to certain different... We ask you to participate too. You can write articles. nice. You can do stuff. I started off because I wanted to learn how to testify and to try to be an advocate. yeah. Alex Ooley (38:03) something you can be as participatory if you want to go that way. Yeah. And I know you've got a few other great resources here too. One of the benefits is you get a discount on USCCA membership. I don't know if that's valid anymore. I think they withdrew that about a year ago. Okay. The other is you've got this resource here to help connect people with doctors who respect the right to keep and bear arms. Right, yeah. It's called 2adoc.com and so it's... you basically fill out a... Dr. John Edeen (38:03) something you can be misparticipatory if you want to go that way. Yeah. And I know you've got a few other great resources here too. One of the benefits is you get a discount on USCCA membership. I know if that's valid anymore. Okay. I think they withdrew that about a year ago. Okay. The other is you've got this resource here to help connect people with doctors who respect the right to keep and bear arms. Right, yeah. It's called 2adoc.com and so it's... you basically fill out a... Alex Ooley (38:33) you're looking for, where you're at, et cetera. And then we try to connect. Dr. John Edeen (38:33) you're looking for, where you're at, et cetera. And then we try to connect that. Alex Ooley (38:41) Now problem is we don't have enough doctors that are in the hospital. So it's kind of a hit or miss thing. And so if you're in the healthcare professions and you want to become a participating doctor, it's great. Now if you're afraid that you're going to have a searchable website, it's not searchable. It's basically you send us a request, we look at our list, we match them up. It's not something that you go on and go look for a doctor. So even if you're a healthcare professional and you're a little bit concerned really, Dr. John Edeen (38:41) Now problem is we don't have enough doctors that are in. So it's kind of a hit or miss thing. And so if you're in the healthcare professions and you want to become a participating doctor, it's great. Now if you're afraid that you're going to have a searchable website, it's not searchable. It's basically you send us a request, we look at our list, we match them up. It's not something that you go on and go look for a doctor. So even if you're healthcare professional and you're a little concerned about how work for supportive of your second name it waits and you can still participate. The website is probably the best place. We do have a lot of good Facebook posts and stuff too. And a lot of times we're addressing some of those more recent article stuff on the Facebook. Alex Ooley (39:13) of a three second view. Excellent. Well is there anything else, ⁓ any other source or resource that you'd like to point out to direct people to other than the website? ⁓ The website is probably the best place. We do have a lot of good Facebook posts and stuff. And a lot of times we're addressing some of those more recent article stuff on the Facebook. think it's drgo.saf if I'm not mistaken. For the web, for the Facebook. I'll try to find that and link to that in the show notes. If you just put a doctor's response, it should be all fine. Okay, excellent. These computers are smarter than most us now. That's right, that's right. Especially with the, you know, sort of the advent of AI and sort of its advancement. Not only smarter, but faster too. Yeah. I'm curious, a lot of doctors I know are using Dr. John Edeen (39:39) think it's drgo.saf if I'm not mistaken. For the web, for the Facebook. I'll try to find that and link to that in the show notes. If you just put a doctor's response, you'll find it. Okay, excellent. These computers are smarter than the last one. That's right, that's right. Especially with the, you know, sort of the advent of AI and sort of its advancement. smarter but faster too. I'm curious, a lot of doctors I know are using AI transcription type services to draft their notes? They're trying to have me do that, but you know what, can do my electronic medical record faster. Because I don't have as much narratives as lot of other people do. Like internal medicine doctors, have long narratives and histories. And for that, the AR is probably helpful. But it's really just a smart way of, it's a smart tape recorder. You still have to take the thing and put it into the notes. Alex Ooley (40:11) AI transcription type services to draft their notes? They're trying to have me do that, but you know what, can do my electronic medical record faster. Because I don't have as much narrative as a lot of other people do. Like internal medicine doctors, have long narratives and histories. And for that, the AI was probably helpful. But it's really just a smart way of, it's a smart tape recorder. You still have to take the thing and put it into Dr. John Edeen (40:40) I can dictate it just as Alex Ooley (40:40) I can dictate it. Dr. John Edeen (40:44) Well, I'm curious, we were talking about how to interact with doctors earlier and you were saying that people could ask what sort of credentials or expertise your doctor has relating to firearms. If they're using the ⁓ dictation or the transcription, the AI service, I assume that's recorded somehow. Yeah, it's recorded and then transcribed. So even if it doesn't end up in their note, there's still a record there somewhere, I would assume. ⁓ Alex Ooley (40:44) Well, I'm curious, we were talking about how to interact with doctors earlier and you were saying that people could ask what sort of credentials or expertise your doctor has relating to firearms. If they're using the ⁓ dictation or the transcription, the AI service, I assume that's recorded somehow. Yeah, it's recorded and then transcribed. So even if it doesn't end up in their note, there's still a record there somewhere, I would assume. ⁓ So, uh... mean, you know, I'm telling you medical records are forever. Yeah. they're accessible to, it depends on who's, you the government I think will probably always be willing to access your medical records. Yeah. Your insurance companies for sure will be accessing your medical records because that requires, you need the medical records for payment. Right. And if they're gonna pay the doctor, they wanna document the insurance Dr. John Edeen (41:14) So, ⁓ mean, you know, I'm telling you, medical records are forever. Yeah. they're accessible to... it depends on who's... the government, think, will probably always be willing to access your medical records. Yeah. Your insurance companies for sure will be accessing your medical records because that requires... you need your medical records for payment. Right. And if they're gonna pay the doctor, they wanna document the insurance... Yeah. So documentation is how you get paid in the medical industry. Right. Alex Ooley (41:44) Yeah. So documentation is how you get paid in the medical industry. Right. Dr. John Edeen (41:50) Well Dr. Adena, I really appreciate you coming on the Forge of Freedom podcast. great to see you in We have to have a cigar tonight. Yeah, exactly. Forge starts raining tomorrow. It's going to be pouring here, by the way. Yeah, it was beautiful weather today, but hopefully people can make it out. This episode will not be being recorded live, but it'll be released sometime next week more than likely. I am recording some episodes live, but this one will come out. Because it's kind of an evergreen topic, right? Yeah, absolutely. It's always a good thing to know. Alex Ooley (41:50) Well Dr. Adena, I really appreciate you coming on the Forge of Freedom podcast. Always great to see you in person. We have to have a cigar tonight. Yeah, exactly. Forge starts raining tomorrow. It's going to be pouring here by the way. Yeah, it's beautiful weather today, but hopefully people can make it out. This episode will not be, it's not being recorded live, but it'll be released sometime next week more than likely. I am recording some episodes live, but this one will come out. Because it's kind of an evergreen topic, right? Yeah, absolutely. It's always a good thing to know. Dr. John Edeen (42:20) go to our website if you have questions about doctors and guns you should be able to find some interesting stuff in there. One of things that I was very interested in that kind of got me is actor shooters in hospitals because that's a real issue in my book. In fact I even wrote the defendant paper that USCCA magazine published in 2017 think it was about actor shooters. Alex Ooley (42:20) our website if you have questions about doctors and guns you should be able to find some interesting stuff. One of the things that I was very interested in that kind of got me is actor shooters in hospitals because that's a real issue with my book. In fact I even wrote the definitive paper that Zua CCA magazine published in 2017 about that. Dr. John Edeen (42:52) And so, you know, stuff in there and that's also posted on the RTO website too. Well, in most hospitals, unfortunately, are gun-free zones too, right? they're soft targets. Otherwise known as killing zones. That's right. Alex Ooley (42:52) So there's stuff in there and that's also posted on the DRGO website too. Well in most hospitals, unfortunately, gun free zones too, right? they're soft targets. The whites known as killing zones. That's right. Well, Dr. thanks again. Really appreciate your time. Great chatting with you. I hope everybody enjoyed the podcast. If you did, don't forget to like and subscribe to help us spread the message of freedom. As always, you can find the podcast on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, X and on all the most popular streaming platforms. Until next time, remember, you're the Forge of Freedom. Dr. John Edeen (43:05) Well, Dr. thanks again. Really appreciate your time. Great chatting with you. I hope everybody enjoyed the podcast. If you did, don't forget to like and subscribe to help us spread the message of freedom. As always, you can find the podcast on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, X, on all the most popular streaming platforms. Until next time, remember, you're the Forge of Freedom.